Disclaimer: I don't think they'll actually add this because it would involve reworking dozens of kits, but it's fun to imagine. We might get it for Snezhaya and Khaen'riah though

The Fontaine characters have an Arkhe alignment (Pneuma / Ousia) which allows them to shut down certain enemies or interact with certain puzzles, and the Natlan characters all have the Nightsoul's Blessing state which makes them more effective against certain enemies and gives them cool exploration features mimicking their tribe's saurian.

So what if the other nations had similar things? I feel like Sumeru's would somehow be connected to the Withering / those dendro sigil things / aranara and maybe the desert characters would have different abilities than the ones in the forest.

I could see Khaen'riah characters having abyss tainted vision powers and being able to interact with certain puzzles that way. (Honestly kind of hoping abyss twin becomes playable at some point)

Specifically, their capacity for free will.

Not theories, just... Musings.

So, with Yohualtecuhtin adding a bit much-needed lore on these, and with a discussion about Remuria and the Phobos I had in another thread, it's got me thinking.

I was going to post this in a comment on their article to suggest additions, but my musings get a bit long for that.

Right. So. Angels do not have free will.

We're first introduced to this idea through Sybilla, who sacrificed her life to help Remus make the Phobos - the Symphony - he used to attempt to unite Fontaine as one and defy fate.

As the Phobos describes it:

"Phobos": "Phobos," or should I say that-which-was-once-Sybilla, was originally a survivor of the last deluge that swallowed the earth.

"Phobos": Sybilla's wish was to grant happiness to all in the world who are called humans. But she had no persona, and her strength was insufficient.

"Phobos": Thus, she entrusted her wisdom to Remus, and with the addition of the power that Remus possessed, the "Symphony"Phobos"" was created. That is to say, me."

(Canticles of Harmony - Fortune Plango Vulnera)

Now, Sybilla isn't outright stated to be a Seelie... But all the evidence points towards her being one. Though, she seems to have kept a lot more of her mind than her comrades did, including her ability to communicate and some sliver of her power.

As said above, she clearly did have desires of her own (if vague ones - "make everyone happy") and the ability to think... She lacked a will. An Ego, if you will. She acts more like a computer program than a living being, which also causes...

"Cassiodor: So, the music we have played all this time, and the fate we accepted... That all came from you...

"Phobos": Yes, it is "me," but it is also "all of you"! "I" am also "you all." I am the aggregate of all your wishes.

Cassiodor: Eliminating our enemies, destroying other lives, destroying cities and villages... Are these also our wishes!?

"Phobos": Precisely! That's what "you" wished for, and so "I" responded. Plunder, hatred, slaughter... These too are part of "your" wishes.

"Phobos": Is that not what it means to give "everyone" happiness?"

(Canticles of Harmony - Fortune Plango Vulnera)

... The Phobos to act like a malfunctioning computer program. She has the vague desire to make everyone happy, but without a will of her own, all of Remuria's wishes end up flooding her - even the dark, violent ones - which just makes this vicious feedback loop that ends up making everyone whose name is not Euergetia at least a little bit bloodthirsty and murderous, since Remuria relied on the Phobos for judgment.

Now, apart from her, until recently all the Angels we see sre either long-dead (I'll get to her) or mindless husks called Seelies, who were apparently unable to hold on to their minds, unlike Sybilla, who degenerated physically but apparently not mentally.

Now, though, we have Yohualtecuhtin, Lord of the Night too, a surviving Angel that remained whole in mind and body and whom we communicate with directly.

... And she's a lot like Sybilla, really. In the whole conversation, she promptly answers questions, offers options and suggestions but does not actually provide her own opinions on anything, really and... Also offers to sacrifice herself and doesn't seem to have any personal feelings on the matter. Or at all really, even when describing something as "painful" it's in an oddly... Clinical way. She speaks mechanically, once again more like a program than a living being. She even remains on standby after Mavuika rejects that plan!

The dialogue is too long to copy here, but it's all in "Beneath the Secret Source".

Finally, our last known Angel, the Goddess of Flowers, Nabu Malikata. While we mostly know about her from in-universe myths and legends, the Flower of Paradise lost does describe her more thoroughly, and there are definitely similarities between her and the other two.

For one, though she was at first against Deshret's rebellion, she was persuaded and seemingly didn't argue with him, just let him speak and decided she liked his conviction.

... And, of course, the self-sacrificing nature. Like what Sybilla did, and what Yohual offered to do, she gave her life to channel power in order to grant Deshret wisdom, and apparently summoned the Divine Nail.

(There's also too much to copy-and-paste here and all of it is important, but it's all in the Flower of Paradise Lost set's descriptions)

So from all of this we can extrapolate that angels, while still fully intelligent, sapient beings capable of experiencing emotions and with their own desires, also don't have a particularly strong sense of self amd their desires tend to be vague or broad ("make everyone happy", "save Natlan", "help Deshret"...) and also have a startlingly blasé attitude towards death and are willing to give their lives in favor of some cause practically at the drop of a hat, and don't seem to have any strong feelings about that.

The only other individual Angel we hear of is one who apparently took a human as a lover and was punished for it (along with the rest of their race) but there's really nothing on them, so we can't say much.

Is this something "programmed" into them by the Heavenly Principles, given they apparently made them? It it something they developed after being "punished for their sin"?

Either way, this does actually fit some real world myths about angels! While this isn't really the case in the mainstream Christian version, which most people are familiar with (angels need to have had free will, otherwise Satan's rebellion doesn't work), the idea of angels simply following "God's will" and lacking their own, unlike humans who have the capacity to choose, isn't exactly an idea Hoyo invented. Also interesting to note - all three of these Angels have, or have offered to, in one case sacrifice themselves for a god's cause.

I do not know what this says about Columbina, if she really is an Angel too.

Discuss.

@IALDABAOTH1 Pinging you bc this seems like something you’d be interested in

I did the quest and all, but like, it still left me puzzled. What happened to Och-kan? Did he go mad or smth? Is the place frozen in time, which is why Bona was around? What happened there exactly? And what connection does our Saurian comparion has with the dragon Sage?

We know that Ochkanatlan was built by Xbalanque’s followers, and that Och-kan had some draconic heritage, but whhhaaattt was actually going on in theree

Found it: from Amethyst Crown's lore in the Flowers of Paradise Lost set

"But, in time, invaders descended from beyond the firmament, bringing with them destruction, overturning rivers, spreading plagues...""And though the invaders brought war to my former kin, they also brought about illusions that could break through shackles to the land.""But the master of the heavens, consumed by fear for the rising tide of delusion and breakthroughs, sent down the divine nails to mend the land, laying waste to the mortal realm...""We then suffered the torment of exile. Stripped was our connection to heaven, to our powers of enlightenment..."

And this isn't just any source - it's the goddess of flowers herself, Nabu Malikata. And it's describing events from before the false sky (when seelies were still in Teyvat). So they would know.

Yes im talking about this again, cuz I'm interested in world-building. Now, there are 2 things that I THINK make sense for Natlan to be technologically advanced.

1. It is a nation of War

2. It's relation to Energy (because fire or fire-related thing)

Now, I want to compare this to other fiction, this is just a comparison, not off topic.

Let's look at the Fire Nation from Avatar The Last Airbender.

Lot of people have expressed their opinions on why Fire Nation is the most advanced but I'm going to bring my opinions here.

1. War

The needs for war would pressure nations to make advanced technology and I think this happen in real life. In the case of Fire Nation, they want to invade and achieve world domination, ofc they need some kind of technological and industrial power to achieve that. Machinery and advanced weaponries will be required to increase military strength.

2. Fire

In technology, metal is an important component, but to manufacture it it requires methods like smelting. How do they achieve this? Obviously they use firebending.

Then they make vehicles and machines, but how do they power them?

Since in ATLA Fire Nation uses steam engines, they need fuels such as coals, and to generate energy you need to burn them, Fire Nation just have the thing.

So Fire is important because it's a direct versatile energy source, it can be used for heat and propulsion like in powering engines, machineries, and for manufactures.

The combination of their knowledge of energy uses, the vast availability of energy and the pressure to advance for war, make Fire Nation the most advanced nation in ATLA (back then metal-bending haven't exist yet).

Now let's look at Natlan

Are they in War?

Yes

Do they have a reliable energy source?

Yes, Phlogiston, and this is supposed to be more advanced and even more versatile because this is a fantasy based energy unlike Fire Nation where their uses of energy is based on real life (using fire to power steam engine).

But the problem is that it does not fit to Natlan tribal aesthetic, and the inconsistencies because their technologies are exclusive to vision holders, they don't use this technology in other things, so it just looks weird because of the disparities.

If you look closely at Bennett's skin, you can see that his skin is slightly darker than the rest of the inhabitants of Mondstadt and if he is from Natlan, then he is probably a half-breed. And my theory is that Iansan's mother started an affair, let's say with a diplomat from Fatui, and Bennett appeared and because the child was born before marriage, Bennett's biological father decided to hide him at the edge of the world and took him to a dungeon where an adventurer found him.

Spoilers for the spiritseeking scrolls event!

Buffer image of double Ororon (I am very easy to amuse)

Okay so the most recent part of the event’s story talked a lot about the Mare Jivari…

As well as the location -

Remember the Specially Shaped Saurian event that came out before Natlan and teased a lot of Natlan details? I think that’s what Hoyo is doing here. My guess is the Mare Jivari will be an upcoming region within the next few updates - I think 5.3 is going to be Lantern Rite focused and 5.4 will add the Collective of Plenty, so I could see Mare Jivari either being the second 5.4 location or being added in 5.5. This is just my best guess though!

Another theory I have is that they’ll add a related character when they release the Mare Jivari. A lot of people have theorized that Ifa will be a playable character so maybe him?

Given Citlali’s description it will probably have a lot of environmental hazards (fun) + the “ominous creature the size of a mountain” sounds a lot like a boss, possibly a weekly one

Is Ororon a Batman? And I mean a demi human batman, like Diona has cat ears, does that horn in Ororon's head a bat ear?

So a battle happened there? interesting.

It's ironic that some of the things that I mentioned actually become real in Natlan. My point is that some of Natlan's technology make sense if we connect it to Pyro, like Mavuika's bike who runs with combustion engine, and also jetpack, since it's like a rocket, it use combustion hence why it spit out flame. Or actually any machines or vehicles because they can run with combustion engines/combustion based propulsion.

It's a miss opportunity to think that they have done correctly in regards to connecting Natlan's technology to their element (Pyro), I think the devs want to do that. But the problem come when they make it a tribal or traditional based nation.

If the devs were to make Natlan with industrial or technological theme much like Fontaine, it would be a lot easier and such technology would not have caused such controversies.

So the conclusion is that they did right in connecting the technology to their element (Pyro), it make sense. But they kind of made a mistake by making it a tribal-themed nation.

Hi again, it's us with YET ANOTHER Remuria lore post!

So if you've done your reading around the Faded Castle, you'd know that Cassiodor did quite a bit of gatekeeping to prevent interest in the ruins of Remuria from arising, and to protect the seals in the ruins of Petrocorii (now Petrichor).

He canonically gatekept from the Fontainians that the Marechaussee Hunters were survivors of the fall of Remuria, not Egeria worshippers. He also canonically spread falsehoods about Remuria to prevent people from finding the Seals of Chymical Marriage and keep the Faded Castle a secret.

But what else did he do? Because if he did that, then there's more he could've done. A lot more. So here's our theories on other things that Cassiodor gatekept:

Euergetia

If you've noticed, not once was Harmost Euergetia of Remuria mentioned outside of the Faded Castle and Sea of Bygone Eras. History has literally forgotten her. Sure, that could simply happen. For certain. And yet! If you look at the engravings in Hortus Euergetis (not calling it a tombstone because she's not confirmed dead, although it's either death, disappearance, or insanity for her), Cassiodor writes a very sus line:

"Though your beneficence be forgotten, though your name be forgotten, here the flowers shall always bloom for you."

Read that again.

Why did he think she'd be forgotten? What'd she do? It's not like she Irminsul'd herself, records of her still exist.

But only deep underwater and in the Faded Castle.

All of this leads us to believe that Cassiodor gatekept Euergetia's existence. His own sister!

Aurelius

According to Silvershower Heartstrings, Harmost Aurelius of Remuria was not a real person. Now, we know this is false. All that esoteric stuff that the Narzissenkreuz Ordo was all about? Aurelius invented a good chunk of it. The Four Orthants, the idea that they need to be united and pierced with a metaphorical substance... ah, yes. All of that. We can thank Aurelius for that!

Yet the people of Remuria think "Aurelius" is a fictional character, one with no historical counterpart.

Seeing what Cassiodor did with Euergetia, is it that far of a stretch he gatekept his other brother's existence as well?

The History of the Decline and Fall of Remuria

Oh, man. This book. It's awfully inaccurate―something we only realized after we panicked and edited a section of Project Remuria, thinking that the book was correct. It was an easy fix, but still a pain in the neck. It shouldn't have happened at all! Keep your lore consistent, HoYoverse!

Except, is this really a HoYoverse problem? Or is this a "Cassiodor was gatekeeping again" problem?

Let's think. The History of the Decline and Fall of Remuria was written a mere century after the fall of Remuria, and yet it is wildly inaccurate. But it's not like there's someone who can correct it.

Oh, wait. Cassiodor's alive.

We theorize that The History of the Decline and Fall of Remuria was actually written by Cassiodor to further spread misinformation on Remuria, hence why it's so wrong despite its recent-ness.

Standings:

Cassiodor's ability to gatekeep: VI

People of Modern Fontaine: Nulla

Two extremely important government figures, an entire faction, a whole fucking castle, the seals in that castle, and a major history book. The winner of this round is Roman Ratio.

Pings: @CalicoTheKat @CloudyBerryGirl @IntrovertedBigBoss @Lunenexe @IALDABAOTH1

Please let us know if this is incoherent it's late 😔